Warranty "Problem" Stories - and Advice - From a Retired Factory Rep

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
10/16/2014 at 13:00 • Filed to: None

If you don't change the oil in your new car, the engine will explode. I interviewed a retired factory field engineer to hear about how often that happened, and other warranty "problem" stories from the manufacturer's side.

I've known Dave (not his real name!) for more than a decade. He handled claims in a different part of the country from where I practice and somewhere along the line our paths crossed and we became friends, even though my job as a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! was kind of the opposite of his. I asked him for some of the more memorable cases from his 30+ years of handling warranty claims for a national manufacturer. I cherry-picked a few he told me about.

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A woman filed a claim on the van she owned with her husband, complaining of a noise which no one in the service department could hear. Dave was asked to inspect and report back to the manufacturer. After riding in the van and not being able to hear anything, he pulled the husband aside and asked him if to describe the noise to Dave. The husband lowered his voice, "Man, I ain't heard it either. But she's my wife and I gotta back her up on this one."

Another time, Dave was called when a customer complained about a dealer wrongfully denying warranty coverage for her van. When Dave went to look at the van, he saw that the rear bumper was caved in. He asked her, "How can I help you?"

She pointed at the bumper: "There." She had backed up in a parking lot and had run into the cement base of a light pole. "That should be warrantied." When asked why the manufacturer ought to pay for the damage, she said that the vehicle "was supposed to have five mile per hour bumpers, and I hit it at less than five miles per hour."

Another customer complained when the dealer suggested his crushed roof wasn't covered by warranty. When Dave saw the car, he could still see footprints visible on the hood of the car where someone had jumped on the hood, walked to the roof and jumped up and down on it a few times. The customer said that the damage had occurred while he was in church and his fellow churchgoers were too honest to have done something like that.

One woman came in with a car that was out of warranty but the paint was coming off in sheets. Dave decided it would make sense for the manufacturer to pay for the paint job out of goodwill. She accepted. A few weeks later, Dave stopped by the shop and was told that the job had just been started but the customer's "representative" was there to "talk to him" about the repair. Dave went to the conference room and was greeted by a hulking man who looked like a marine drill instructor – because he was one. He demanded to know why the customer had not been given a rental car and without waiting for an answer, suggested Dave was intentionally mistreating the customer.

A little bothered by the fact that the customer had not asked for a rental – which he would have given her if she had asked – and that the "representative" likewise had not asked, Dave told him. "She never asked for one." Rather than picking up on the hint and simply asking for one, the man leaned in close to Dave's face and began berating him for how poorly he treated his customers. Dave let the man vent and then left. No rental car was given. The free paint job was however, primarily because the job had already begun.

One customer complained about how the warranty claim had been denied on her vehicle's transmission. The car was out of warranty so Dave was called. The dealer told Dave that the woman was a good friend of one of the dealer's employees. The two sat down and the woman launched into a tirade about what a piece of junk the car was and how she was never going to buy another car from that manufacturer ever again. After insulting the manufacturer and its products for a few minutes she caught her breath and demanded that Dave authorize the post-warranty repair.

"Ma'am. Could you give me any solid business reason – after you telling me you would never buy our product again – for me to extend any help to you?"

She had no answer. Dave declined to give her the goodwill repair – which he probably would have given to her if he had thought it might help keep her as a customer. A few days later the husband called the dealership to find out what happened. When he was told the repair was declined he responded, "Don't tell me she opened her mouth?!"

One customer complained that several of the controls in her car were hard to operate and the center console in her vehicle could only be accessed if she unbuckled her seat belt and moved around. Dave got in the car and found that he had no problem working the controls or accessing the console when he sat in it. The customer came back to talk to him and he realized what the problem was: She was substantially, how do we put this, larger than Dave was. This customer had filed a claim with the manufacturer and Dave had to write a report of his findings. After determining that there was nothing wrong with the situation except for the way the client fit into the car, he submitted his report and noted the customer's "girth" as being the primary factor. But it was not a problem covered by warranty.

A short while later, Dave was asked to write an apology letter to the girthy customer who had taken offense for having her girthiness noted in Dave's report. Dave had been careful to not criticize the customer and asked how such a thing could have been addressed otherwise. The proposed language was, "The interior dimensions of the vehicle do not match the exterior dimensions of the customer."

One of the most common things Dave saw was engine failures where the customer had not properly changed the oil – sometimes with cars coming in with their factory-installed oil filters still in place. One customer told him it was a factory-defect and she was certain: Her last two vehicles had the same problem with their lousy engines and for some odd reason the company kept trying to blame her.

Dave told me, "I couldn't even count the number of times – hundreds of times – where people didn't change their oil." One time, another factory representative drove his executive car for 35,000 miles without changing the oil and the engine failed. And on those cars, the oil changes were provided for free. The warranty claim was denied and a dealer was paid retail to replace the engine.

Not all the cars came back in with the factory filters still in place but they often came in at 40 or 50 thousand miles with sludge-filled engines. Because it is theoretically possible for other causes to lead to a sludge problem, dealers routinely ask to see receipts or records for oil changes to prove that they were performed. It was extremely rare for the customer to have evidence of the oil changes. One customer filed a small claims action and brought to court a whiteboard he had filled out with Magic Marker claiming it was how he tracked his extensive oil changes. But he had no receipts. Dave saw engine failures based on failure to change the oil on a weekly basis. If the customer could not come up with evidence of oil changes, the claims were denied.

On the other hand, Dave also !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! when he felt that the manufacturer was at fault, going so far as to call up his superiors and tell them to buy cars back after a lawsuit or an arbitration case had already been filed. "Guys, you don't want me testifying in court on this one. We need to buy this one back."

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Dave says he considered himself a customer advocate. When he was asked about the standards he held his decisions to, he referred to his Family, Friends, Neighbor Filter. "If this vehicle was owned by a family member, a neighbor I like, or a friend of mine – somebody I'm going to have to live with for the rest of my life – I want to feel comfortable with the decision based on that criteria. Not somebody that I'll never see again. And that's how I made those decisions."

There are lessons to be learned from my talk with Dave. Change your oil and save your receipts. If your vehicle breaks down out of warranty, appeal to the manufacturer for a goodwill repair. Just don't scream and yell about how much you hate the company – at least, not before you find out if the repair is going to be made.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Image: Bureau of Labor Statistics

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, specializing in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . He also wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He urges you to consult with an attorney in your state should you have further legal questions.

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DISCUSSION (100)

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:10

"The interior dimensions of the vehicle do not match the exterior dimensions of the customer."

That just made my day, thank you.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:11

It always amazes me how out of touch people can be with their cars and the basic minor maintenance that needs to be done to keep them in proper working order. Especially people who don't know you need to change the oil in a car, or my favorite the people who don't bother to replace break pads and you can hear metal on metal from half a mile a way.

vondon302 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:17

Damn steve you always write great stuff. Interior exterior dimensions lmfao

Mattbob > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:22

"The interior dimensions of the vehicle do not match the exterior dimensions of the customer."

This is gold.

SteveLehto > ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier
10/16/2014 at 13:27

And I would have thought THAT was an insult. But it is pretty good corporate-speak.

Thanks for the note.

SteveLehto > vondon302
10/16/2014 at 13:28

Thanks! But don't forget, I got that from the Factory guy.

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:29

No problem!

Takuro Spirit > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:30

We see SO MANY lack of oil-change related failures. Especially on engines that NEED regular oil changes more than others (cough cough CX-7 2.3L DISI Turbo cough cough) and are prone to cooking components when neglected.

It's like people aren't told their new appliance needs constant maintenance. Whether it be at the sales level, or just the customer being thick headed about the process. (You often wonder about the car they traded in, if this was not the first they have owned)

The manufacturer almost ALWAYS declines assistance. No record of proper oil change intervals, no help. If you have a 'buddy' at a 'shop' that changes your oil, it didn't help you to have him hand write 3 or 4 receipts with no info other than "CHANGED OIL AND FILTER" on them. Especially if they are sequentially numbers, and are all in order. Oops.

My favorite denial story of all time comes from an aftermarket extended warranty:

Customer brought his Dakota into the shop, complaining of an automatic transmission issue. Of course, it's a Dodge. So the tech diagnoses it, recommends a rebuilt unit or a rebuild, and the extended warranty company is called, as the truck is out of factory warranty and is close to running out of the 100k mile extended plan that was purchased.

The company sends a rep out, he looks at the paperwork, looks at the truck, and asks the owner how long the larger wheels and tires have been on the truck for..... when the owner confesses, he does some quick math on his calculator and says "If you had kept the stock wheels and tires on the truck, your mileage would exceed your coverage. We cannot cover this repair."

Everyone in the shop dropped their jaws.

Tohru > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:38

Fuck yeah, a new Steve Lehto article.

I got bored the other day, and inspired by Breaking Bad's Saul Goodman, made this:

Kinja'd!!!

SteveLehto > Tohru
10/16/2014 at 13:40

Um, I need that in a higher resolution, like a billion DPI, so I can start slathering it on billboards and water towers . . .

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 13:41

Noooooo....seriously?

Takuro Spirit > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR
10/16/2014 at 13:48

Yep. Wait, which part?

thebigbossyboss > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 13:49

Dayyyyyuuummmmm that's cold.

dsgdsgffdgdsgfsdg > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:56

"She pointed at the bumper: "There." She had backed up in a parking lot and had run into the cement base of a light pole. "That should be warrantied." When asked why the manufacturer ought to pay for the damage, she said that the vehicle "was supposed to have five mile per hour bumpers, and I hit it at less than five miles per hour.""

to be fair, it the impact was below 5 mpg, and the dent was " 3 8 in (10 mm) dent and 3 4 in (19 mm) displacement"

errr nevermind. i just finished reading the wiki article, and it appears that this was rolled back to 2.5 mph. So if the she was traveling at 2.5 mph and did damage greater then 3/8 inch or 3/4 inch dent, then it would be covered by the warranty. (if it was claimed to be a 5 mph bumper i'm not quite sure how that would work)

BUT he didn't say how big the dent was. I'm guessing it was a pretty substantial dent, which would mean that it would not be covered.

dsgdsgffdgdsgfsdg > ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier
10/16/2014 at 13:57

yea got to love BS wording. I mean even "Girth" was dancing around the subject.

Although... i would have added the word "appropriately" in there too. After all she did fit into the car, so its obviously that her "exterior" dimensions did fit into the "Interior" of the car, just not "appropriately".

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 13:57

The tire diameter run-out thing. That is harsh man.

Svend > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 13:58

I've been asked many a time by friends and colleagues to look at their car for one reason or another. One colleague her car kept cutting out and losing power. I asked for her keys and gave it the usual look over, checked the oil, started it up, revved it a little, to listen for anything then glanced at the coolant water lever and it was nearly dry, filled it up with de-ironised water and told her to get some additive from the garage on the way home and the car was fine after that. Had customers with a flat tyre who have no idea whatsoever where the spare tyre is nevermind how to change it and so many other inane things like it. One colleague wanted to phone the police because she believed her car had been tampered with and someone had tried to break in, turns out her son had been picking at the rubber seal around the window while it was down and when it was rolled back up had pushed the rubber out of position.

Nobody takes the time to get to know even the basics of their cars and my pet hate of all time is being told 'it's just a car to get from A to B' (I really could just punch them in the face when they say that), and has to be explained that a car is like any machine, you need to maintain it even if they don't know how to do it, to get someone who does.

It's amazing how these people even get dressed in the morning.

Tohru > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:00

10" x 4.6", 500 pixels per inch. I'd need a better picture of you to do it right, though.

Kinja'd!!!

dsgdsgffdgdsgfsdg > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 14:03

"If you had kept the stock wheels and tires on the truck, your mileage would exceed your coverage. We cannot cover this repair."

Thats a little mean.... i mean a transmission should last a bloodly long time... (note i don't know what the difference it. It could have been a pretty larger wheel size, and would have added quite a few miles onto the odometer)

note we had a car that had non stop transmission problems... so its a little bit of a sore point.

overheated > Mattbob
10/16/2014 at 14:06

Customer IQ insufficient to operate vehicle of this caliber!!

Takuro Spirit > dsgdsgffdgdsgfsdg
10/16/2014 at 14:07

A larger tire diameter will spin the odometer slower, so when you travel lets say 100 miles actual, the odo will show less. MUCH less, depending on how much larger the tire than stock.

With extended warranties having a date/mileage constriction (i.e. 2years 24,000 miles from XX/XX/XXXX or XX,XXX miles) it put this guy over enough for them to not even drop a penny on him. I've been there too, had a 12/12 warranty on a car that developed an issue and had to fight with the warranty company since I was under 12 months, but only a few hundred miles over the warranty.

Too many M's > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:08

Great stories! Has he commented on whether there are more claims since the "lifetime" fluids and longer fluid change intervals have been instituted?

Mark > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 14:09

The engine computer does keep a rough estimate of the miles based on operation and that could also have been check to see how close to odometer was to the EMR check mileage. I wonder, however, how that would have held in court.. although I can't argue with the decision.

Mark > Mattbob
10/16/2014 at 14:09

Takes politically correct to a new level!

Mark > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/16/2014 at 14:11

I use to tell customers.. "I don't care if you put Castor Oil in that engine.. change it every 3,000 miles" (of course I wasn't suggesting using Castor Oil, but tried to make a point). Now with the Synthetics out there and the engine oil change monitors you can exceed those limits quite a bit. My how things have changed.

SteveLehto > Tohru
10/16/2014 at 14:14

I'm not sure Detroit is ready for that. Thanks!

SteveLehto > Too many M's
10/16/2014 at 14:15

I'll ask.

Nemesis0999 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:15

Perfect timing for this to pop up I'm in a situation where I'm about ready to Lemon Law a Ford Focus Electric. It has been in the Ford dealership since 9/11/2014 and they still aren't 100% sure what is wrong with the vehicle (they are speculating full battery replacement). I have been on the phone with Ford corporate customer service as well and while the representative is polite and offered to pay one lease payment (still do not have the check). I'm getting tired or waiting to get my vehicle back or have the lease cancelled.

Do you think I need/should contact a lawyer on this? My vehicle purchase date was 10/30/2013 so it is still under a year old and fits within the MD lemon law.

Here is a link to the video of the error message the day it popped up

SteveLehto > Nemesis0999
10/16/2014 at 14:16

Contact a local attorney. It can't hurt to call too early.

Tohru > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:18

Come on Steve, it'll be awesome. I promise.

Mark > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/16/2014 at 14:18

I was at a shop one day, and the tech comes over says "Hey look at this, you won't believe it". The front wheels were off.. and what once was rotors were now paper thin.. and literally paper thin. The brakes had been long gone. The car could only stop with the rear brakes which were toast as well. The tech tells me the customer says he "just" started hearing noise and brought in the vehicle!!

pantsaretootight > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:22

Like my wife keeps telling me, she has no idea what that "710" knob is under the hood.

Gonemad > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:22

I already worry at changing my oil at every 6.000 miles (10.000km). I drive on uneven traffic (idle on traffic jams), under scorching heat and all those conditions labeled as factors to change your oil often. For me, driving 35 freaking thousand miles without changing oil would be an insult.

And I know a plenty others anecdotes about people that do not mind their cars, like the girl that brings a big, ahem, small-block V8 to a repair shop and just says "it is not working". The mechanic puts it apart, only to find out it was just out of GAS. He puts it together, fills it up, and the engine purrs to life without a problem. This girl would never starve the engine out of oil, she managed to starve it out of FREAKING GASOLINE first. It turns out her previous BF always drove the car on weekends and filled it up for her.

Mark > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:24

So my wife was out of town driving her new vehicle... She calls me up cussing up a storm telling me how sh*tty this vehicle was.. what a piece of junk etc... She tells me she's on the side of the road and the car "just quit". I start to quiz her thinking I now gotta jump in my car and drive an hour away to rescue her. I asked her if she ran out of gas.. NO, but I ran out of washer fluid.. Oh wait.. that flashing red light and dinging... ahh.. wasn't the washer fluid warning... I asked her where the needle was on the fuel gauge... Ahh... well past E. She learned that night what the "Walk Light" really was.. thank goodness where she was at was at the end of the exit ramp next to a gas station. I still kid her about the Washer Fluid "light".

Mark > Nemesis0999
10/16/2014 at 14:28

If it meets LL in MD, ask the dealer if they will contact the rep.. provide the facts that support the LL case and have the advocate to you a replacement vehicle. Cheaper for the Manufacturer than paying legal fees. If done properly it does work.

A Girl is No One > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/16/2014 at 14:28

I can't help but mess with those people- ask them if they've ever changed the blinker fluid or if their canooter valve is clogged. Hell, I'm disappointed when people don't know how to change their own oil- I'd rather spend the same amount of time doing it myself, knowing it was done right with a quality filter and oil. I don't trust the Jiffy Lube techs not to strip my oil drain plug or simply forget to put the oil in (that happend to a friend!). If you own a car, just know basic things about cars- it helps you not get ripped off at the mechanic at the very least.

SteveLehto > Tohru
10/16/2014 at 14:40

It IS awesome. But it runs counter to my "No paid advertising" rule!

SteveLehto > Mark
10/16/2014 at 14:42

That's why I hate rental cars. I have been driving and seen idiot lights and heard alarms that completely baffled me. There's probably a similar learning curve with some new cars (although there usually is an analog gas gauge to accompany the other bells and whistles).

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:43

A good one along these lines. One of my old bosses (mind you this was at a major automotive ad agency for one of the Big 3) hated American cars. Finally convinced to buy another car (as her and her husband shared a 94 Civic) she bought a 4 year old Fusion from a retired Ford Engineer - meticulously maintained with records.

A week or two goes by and she comes up to me at work (knowing I'm the car guy/DIY mechanic type) and she tells me - "This car is a piece of shit! This is why I don't buy American! It's broken already!" Me- "well what's wrong with it? It's a 4 year old Fusion with 60k miles, there's no way something broke" Her - "It needs brake pads! See! I told you this would happen! I'm already throwing money at this piece of shit!"

I could barely contain myself.

Tohru > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 14:45

... what if they were made as business cards?

SteveLehto > Tohru
10/16/2014 at 14:57

Too many people wouldn't get the humor. But I do appreciate it. I've already reposted it to my Fbook page.

BKosher84 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 15:00

"If the customer could not come up with evidence of oil changes, the claims were denied."

Keep. Every. Single. Receipt. For. Everything. Even if it's just for windshield wiper blades. Keep the receipt, you have NO IDEA WHEN YOU WILL NEED TO PROVE WHAT YOU DID, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem.

Mark > pantsaretootight
10/16/2014 at 15:02

Well tell her to go to Wally World and get the 03W01 fluid when it's time to change that stuff in the engine

BigBlock440 > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 15:07

Wouldn't everything else spin slower also, possibly less wear?

Takuro Spirit > BigBlock440
10/16/2014 at 15:11

We're talking about a 44RE here....

Tohru > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 15:29

Fair enough. Happy to provide some amusement for your day.

TwoToneLoser > dsgdsgffdgdsgfsdg
10/16/2014 at 16:15

The bigger tires reduced the miles on the odometer. Smaller ones would add miles to it.

noimnotacontrarian > ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier
10/16/2014 at 16:28

Should have bought a TARDIS.

JGrabowMSt > Mark
10/16/2014 at 16:48

You do have to watch out though, my Magnum does have a washer fluid light, though it's very different from the gas light.

ezeolla > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 16:59

And that is why I let the dealership do all of the oil changes while the car is under warranty. I want an indisputable paper trail

John Carter > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 17:14

I work as a service manager for a Cadillac dealer, and I can't tell you how often I get customers who are at the very end of their warranty who haven't been here before, and when I look up in GM's internal warranty system to find their coverage, they have NEVER had their free maintenance performed. This is usually someone who we're seeing now because they are having some sort of problem... which is because either nobody has ever changed their oil OR whoever has been doing it either used the wrong oil (don't put 99 cent per quart Walmart conventional oil in your 2013 ATS turbo and then run it to 0% oil life, folks- it takes synthetic for a reason) or didn't do it often enough. We're not trying to trick you into anything here, just get the damned free services done. If you come in later with a blown engine or something and the first thing we see is that you couldn't be bothered to get your FREE stuff done, there's a 0% chance it's getting covered out of warranty. Hell, it might not get covered IN warranty if you haven't gotten it done. I've had customers blow up an ATS turbo in 10,000 miles from beating the crap out of it on the original oil, and I've had customers run CTS-Vs to 90k miles in 3 years with no problems at all because they understand what maintenance is. Your car is only as reliable as you are- if it can't count on you to take care of it, don't count on it to take care of you.

MrCrash > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 17:16

If you can cover up all the ads for that annoying woman lawyer with the giant lips with this, you would be my hero.

SteveLehto > MrCrash
10/16/2014 at 17:18

The Blonde? Covering up those ads would require me to kill forests just for enough paper . . .

RedFive2012 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 17:36

"Consultations" is spelled incorrectly above the email address.

SteveLehto > RedFive2012
10/16/2014 at 17:38

You don't want a free Consulation?

RedFive2012 > TwoToneLoser
10/16/2014 at 17:40

The larger wheels and tires also probably contributed to the transmission problems. Something about the extra rotational mass increasing the stresses on the drivetrain or something like that.

RedFive2012 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 17:48

If it's something I can do with my wife, perhaps, but some lawyer dude from Detroit? Nah.

RedFive2012 > Mark
10/16/2014 at 17:50

Wouldn't that be 03M01?

SteveLehto > RedFive2012
10/16/2014 at 17:51

Damn. Then maybe we need to rethink exactly what it is I am willing to give away for free.

TwoToneLoser > RedFive2012
10/16/2014 at 19:18

They would have to be pretty big to do that. The trans probably broke because Dodge.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 19:42

90,000 miles. That's how many were showing on the Camry's odometer when it was brought in for its first oil change. And this is why I am wary of cars coming off of a lease.

I was in an autoshop class 25 years ago when a classmate brought in a Camry. His dad worked for Toyota and had this as a lease car and was about to turn it in for a replacement. He had to prove that the car was maintained during the lease period, so he gave it to his son to do its very first, and probably last, oil change.

It was like the oil had reverted back to its original tar-like, crude oil beginnings. It didn't exactly flow out of the engine, but instead plopped out in clumps. Since this was a Camry, with its cockroach-like ability to stay alive despite deplorable treatment, it still ran. Somehow I suspect that this tar was the only thing keeping this engine alive, with this ancient oil functioning like those miracle oil additives that help get another few hundred miles out of a clunker.

I didn't follow up, but I would guess that this engine was leaking from every crack and crevice after this maintenance, with the fresh oil removing the garbage that kept the engine from leaking. But by then it would be someone else's problem, and dad could continue his habit of attempting to kill motorized vehicles through gross neglect.

Sir Halffast > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 19:58

I prefer free Conslutations than either of the other options.

Itsbritney > A Girl is No One
10/16/2014 at 20:07

I wish I had a place to change my own oil. I rent and it'd never be allowed in this neighborhood. The last time I took her in for an oil change, the guy made a very offensive, sexist remark.

RallyWrench > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:10

Again, with the helpfulness & good writing.

Itsbritney > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:10

Question: I drive a Honda Fit and it tells me when my oil needs to be changed. It's around the 5k mark vs 3k mark. Should I be listening to what my vehicle says?

RallyWrench > Too many M's
10/16/2014 at 20:28

Yes, there are. There have been class-action lawsuits for it. BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi have all very quietly put transmission services back into their recommendations.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:36

I like "Dave"

thebullfrog > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:37

I know I've read this article on here before. Like, a couple years ago.

Wave Motion Gun > Tohru
10/16/2014 at 20:38

"Dave saw engine failures based on failure to change the oil on a weekly basis."

You're supposed to change it weekly? Holy shit I'm fucked.

SirRaoulDuke > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:43

I had a long day at work. The girth story gave me a needed laugh! Thanks man.

SteveLehto > Sir Halffast
10/16/2014 at 20:44

Is that ever really "free"?

SteveLehto > RallyWrench
10/16/2014 at 20:45

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Travis > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 20:45

Jesus, again with the CX-7. Another car getting a bad rep for reliability due to the ignorance of the owners. Aside from the VVT issue, those motors are no more likely to fry than any other turbo charged engine that becomes oil starved. The mazdaspeed3 has the same engine and yet it miraculously doesn't have the same reputation, because typically speaking someone who purchases one knows how to do, at the very least, basic maintenance.

Same thing with the RX rotaries, eat oil, prone to flooding. Anyone that bothers to take care of them properly will notice that apex seals don't spontaneously combust. You can't drive the car like a grandmother, rotaries have to rev, don't crank the car to pull it out of the driveway without laying into the go pedal first.

Just wait, Ford is pushing all these new ecoboost motors, going to first time turbo engine owners. They will start having problems as these vehicles age and rather than look at ineptitude of owners, we will slap the label on ecoboost engines.

tpw_rules > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 20:47

This might be a fancy vehicle thing, but on my Saab I can (with the dealer tool) plug in my wheel circumference so it can give accurate speedo and odo readings. This must have been something that wasn't done/is impossible to do on said vehicle? It seems like a rather asinine technicality at first glance. Also, it wouldn't have meant any increased wear (barring more stress due to extra diameter etc). Even though the warranty was specified in miles, it's revolutions that cause breakdowns. This seems like an extremely mean thing to do.

SteveLehto > Itsbritney
10/16/2014 at 20:48

Good question. Arguably, you need to follow the mfr's specs but we all know those specs are way conservative. I doubt you'd get denied if you changed oil/filter every 5 even though the manual says every 3. Most of these people never changed the oil OR once every 20 or 30 or more. That's the problem.

Stang70Fastback > Takuro Spirit
10/16/2014 at 20:48

Isn't that a completely bullshit argument? I mean the transmission was spinning more slowly due to the larger tires, so yes she covered 100k miles in a "shorter" distance, but... seeing as the transmission was rotating more slowly, that also means that there was LESS wear on it! If he used the "miles traveled" argument he's technically incorrect.

IF he started talking about increased wear due to greater forces, then that's another story, but you can't actually say "well the transmission WOULD have had 100,000 miles worth of rotations" when it actually doesn't. That's just bullshit.

SteveLehto > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion
10/16/2014 at 20:49

Dave's a great guy.I'll pass along your note.

SteveLehto > thebullfrog
10/16/2014 at 20:50

Impossible. I interviewed Dave yesterday and finished writing this today.

SteveLehto > SirRaoulDuke
10/16/2014 at 20:50

Thanks for the note. I appreciate it.

revarthurbelling > ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier
10/16/2014 at 20:57

Was just coming here to mention that! Reminds me of Kitchenette's "Kitchen Confidential" series.

Quade > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:58

My Fit doesn't say change the oil till way over 7500 miles. I do it at 7000 miles anyway. 3000 mile oil changes have pretty much gone the way of the dodo. Most cars are 5000-7500 or more. If you're just going to drive it 100K miles then sell it, just follow the oil change meter. If you want to keep it till it dies, follow the severe service interval.

I advocate minimum maintenance for cars you're not keeping long term. Even the domestics will go 100K miles if you follow the longest recommended interval. It's not your problem any more once you sell/trade it.

Captain Midnight > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 20:59

For how many times the dealerships screw over customers. I can not get mad at a few customers that try to screw over the dealerships for free repairs.

Quade > Nemesis0999
10/16/2014 at 21:01

My advice is to never buy another Ford. At least not until they get their shit together. I saw a guy at the garage the other day. 1 year old ford, wouldn't pass emissions because of some factory defect in the fuel tank. Dealer wouldn't fix it.

MR.Z06 > Mark
10/16/2014 at 21:02

Your wife's an idiot

light ignore r.

Bad72AMX > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:05

I have those same responsibilities in my role, and it is amazing what people think should be warranty. Like "Dave", I am very customer oriented. Here are a few I've seen in the past year:

Customer comes in complaining that his HVAC vents "don't blow evenly". Despite me explaining that the vents at the sides of the dash are smaller and require a much longer, less direct route of airflow AND sitting him in other cars, he insisted his car was defective and I buy it back. He even consulted a lawyer, but it never went further then the lawyer contacting the dealer for info.

Customer comes in with engine failure a few weeks after some local flooding. It was equipped with an engine that simply does not have failures of the sort and around 40k miles, all but eliminating the chance of misassembly or defective parts. I start digging, and immediately find its cleanliness suspect. As a normal part of checking for floods, I checked under the trunk mat, looked for dirt behind the license plates and mouldings, checked fluids etc. Everything was spotless and clearly recently scrubbed, including the fluids. The dealer did all the maintenance and it had been a few thousand since the last oil change. Then I checked the air filter- it was soaked and rusty. Amazing you could go to such lengths and miss something so basic.

Customer purchases a premium vehicle with a diesel engine for roughly $55k. He comes into a dealer while I just happened to be there complaining of a hard start and rough running. He had just driven 200 miles straight after he stopped for fuel. The tech pulls it on a lift and drains some fuel from the filter. It was gasoline. The advisor reported to the customer that it was gas, and him and I had the conversation that it was not going to be warranty and he needed to contact the fuel station and his insurance company immediately. He then proceeds to ask me how I knew the difference, and refused to accept appearance and smell, and refused to go see the sample and a diesel sample on his own. He then asked the service manager how he could be sure the dealer didn't put gasoline in, despite the fact that he came in with severe drivability concerns. His insurance ended up covering a $16k repair.

jalop1991 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:05

If you would like, I will happily spell out my ENTIRE Honda story regarding Honda's treatment of me over the years, from the amazingly good all the way past the crash when Honda pulled ALL the way back on their goodwill program and fucked me, HARD, on their piece of shit transmission.

Honda took 25 years of amazing goodwill and flushed it hard down the toilet in one single fell swoop, Fuck Honda. The door swings both ways: why should they expect me to spend another penny with them when they treated me like that after 25 years of loyalty, referrals, dealer service, and the constant re-telling of stories that said why people SHOULD do business with American Honda.

I have told this story at every opportunity over the last 5 years. I would be happy to bang it out again.

I rather enjoy telling the story all the more so because it spells out the LONG slide Honda has made over the last 30 years. Sure, there used to be a reason you bought a Honda. But then the transmission debacle happened, revealing the ugly truth.

You know what makes it all the worse? I've been driving a Toyota for the last 7.5 years, with nary a problem. Drives as well as it did new, 145,000 miles ago. That's just the final nail in the Honda coffin.

thebullfrog > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:05

My ESP kicking in again I suppose.

Bad72AMX > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:06

You and Joumana Kayrouz can battle it out for most ridiculous and frequent law office advertising in the Detroit Metro

SteveLehto > Captain Midnight
10/16/2014 at 21:07

We're not mad at them. We're just having a little fun at their anonymous expense.

Canadmos > BKosher84
10/16/2014 at 21:07

A great idea. And now with ever expanding options like Google Drive, I simply take a picture of my receipt and save them there.

Or, email a picture of the receipt to yourself and type the information of the purchase in the body of the email. That way you can search for it after, if needed. Do this and your receipts will last forever........and the ink won't fade away after two years.

Have not run into a situation yet where they wanted the original receipt.

Canadmos > dsgdsgffdgdsgfsdg
10/16/2014 at 21:08

I would assume that "caved in" is much bigger than a dent. hah

SteveLehto > jalop1991
10/16/2014 at 21:10

Amazing how car companies can do that. I don't know your particular story, but I know how they can be.

SteveLehto > thebullfrog
10/16/2014 at 21:11

Could be. Can you give me a list of my next five or ten pieces? It'll help me overcome writer's block!

SteveLehto > Bad72AMX
10/16/2014 at 21:13

Her billboards don't brighten your otherwise-glum commutes?

Haze > RallyWrench
10/16/2014 at 21:22

Yes. We got a letter from Mini that went from 100,000 mile plus on the CVT transmission to every 25,000 miles or else. They replaced a lot of transmissions. I had already had the fluid changed because the thing felt sticky to me. Apparently it was.

On my sister-in-law's Mini, missing the oil change recommendation by two thousand miles [something I would never do] wiped her cam shafts clean, as in completely without lobes. My mechanic saw the same thing on another Mini. I don't mean to hammer Mini. This is a cross company problem, and an education problem for customers who are used to pushing off maintenance work, but oil life indicators are pushing to the limit was lubricating oil and filters can do, and in come cases, they are overly aggressive.

Haze > Mark
10/16/2014 at 21:24

My wife once called me livid that she could not open her car door because the battery was dead. I drove out to the lot she was in and picked her up next to the offending car. I then drove her three rows over to her car, which popped right open for her. In her defense, they were almost identical.

JB1 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:26

How does one go about finding the various "Daves" of the mfg community?

Lets say I change my oil myself, regularly every 3k miles. I dont have any invoice or service record, and the engine fails. Even though it was maintained correctly, without proof how do I get warranty service?

Great article by the way. Steve, I look forward to your articles.

theshinobi01 > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:26

My biggest thing is, when people think they know better than what the manufacturer suggests, then gets all riled up when the manufacturer denies their warranty claim. What do you mean I can't go 30k miles without an oil change? /facepalm

sgtyukon > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:27

The last car rental I had, the owner's manual was almost 600 pages. And I can't even download the manual in advance of your trip because car rental companies have always given me an "or similar" instead of the car they suggested they might possibly deign to rent to me.

thebullfrog > SteveLehto
10/16/2014 at 21:27

If I could overcome writer's block so easily I would fix my own.